Monday, February 12, 2007

good morning. had my coffee this morning with a tivoed 'meet the press'. during a commercial break, that i was fast forwarding through, i spotted dennis hopper. i wondered what product he might be peddling. he is talking about his dreams and youth yada yada. it turns out he was peddling some financial investment company. i recently went to an event at something that was referred to as 'artist loft spaces' in marina del rey. hopper was one of a few artists that were described as being artists-in-residence at these lofts. turned out these were carpeted condos and hopper was the evenings window dressing, the hand model. now im a reasonable man and i understand needing to make a buck. if you are an artist this is a tricky, shifty and always changing public tight rope you need to walk. we all have rents and mortgages but what i wonder is, in the dense thicket of 'edgy' media and advertising, when does an artist stop being an effective salesman of something that by definiton is not about sales. it seems like each time out, when you put your product next to a particular piece of art or artist, a direct relationship is created that we all recognize. there is a simple formula to this relationship with a zero sum. mojo of hoppers distant past is decreased while the mojo of financial company is increased. led zeppelin music mojo is decreased while increasing cadillacs mojo. but after these exchanges, one does not move on with the original amount of mojo intact. we can make a living and make compromises, because i know life is messy, but why not apply some reasonable ethics to your business affairs. i have made plenty of decisions that were certainly a compromise for financial reasons. but i also could have made considerably more money had i simply taken every big pay day offered. i dont say all this to pat myself on the back. it is just that i feel a sense of balance in this area. like evrything else in life, all is not black and white. i would feel like a real asshole is if i was using my youthful rebellion to sell some evil corporate deathburger. but hey maybe thats just me. or that just might be my intellectual vanity. but then that would be a topic for another post.


Chris (C. Brian) said...


"corporate deathburger" . . . your phrase made me laugh out loud, which I rarely do.

Leave it to us - - your fans - - to pat you on the back. We admire your levelheadedness and integrity.

Anonymous said...

I am only asking this question since you are an honest person.Did you make enough money from the Janes days to retire a 'comfortable' lifestyle ? My good friend Mark Mothersbaugh from DEVO fame once told me that even though DEVO was big on MTV etc back in the day, he hardly made any money from the group..He made his money writing music for shows, etc..which in my book isn't selling out...Money changes people...Teri Polo from the movie " Meet The Fockers" etc...was my sisters best friend back in high school..she stayed at my house countless times..However when she left to pursue an acting career,she has all but forgotten her childhood true friend..Pretty sad...We all know how much more your bank account would be had you taken perry up on his offers..I am glad you have kept it the way, I got my first Polar Bear CD in the mail today! looking forward to it...


Ryan said...

I wish Perry was listening. I hated hearing my childhood coming down the mountain in a chevy truck, and Jane drinking whiskey about made me puke. I understand DUDES, it was the beginning, but these corporate deathburgers are a sad way to kill a legacy.
On a happy note, What's the timeline on the new tunes?

chris said...

great post. i have to say, for some of the young indie bands that are on the scene, selling a tune for a car commercial or something might be the only way they can make $. i'm talking like the interpols, tv on the radio's (well maybe not anymore), the walkmen, etc. in this day and age of file sharing, you just don't make $$ selling records. i know there is a huge shift taking place in the music business and i think its pretty exciting actually (and i also think the record industry had it coming to them for a long time) but there is many ways some of these younger, less fortunate bands can make even make a dollar. i hve heard a bunch of these size acts songs on tv, and i feel it has to be done to stay afloat and to continue on. and, if that is the case for the indie's, i guess it shouldn't bother me for the bigger bands, but it kinda does. its a weird time in to weigh in on all this stuff i think.

chris said...
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chris said...
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chris said...
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-ea. said...

chris c. brian - thank you sir.

-ea. said...

S - this is an interesting thing. generally artists dont have as much money as people expect. without being too specific, i have a modest house in a modest neighborhood and janes monies help but do not entirely support this lifestyle. that sort of sums it up. hope you dig the pbr cd. i hope it is 'why something instead of nothing'. that is the one i am most proud of.

mothersbaugh is a genius. im jealous you know him and i dont.

-ea. said...

ryan - firstly i must say that i saw my piece of publishing money for those ads. but that being said, i would have preferred that they keep the cash and we keep our songs out of those spots.

new tunes news is imminent but i am playing it close to the chest right now because of companies and negotiations blah blah. i will let you know as soon as i have something firm.

-ea. said...

chris- i agree with what you are saying and i think it brings up an important distinction. i will be pursuing liscensing my new work in different spots (assuming they make sense) because the music world IS different and because i wont be doing any real touring. so yes the new business model is using all these other avenues to generate income and as an alternative approach to marketing. but the distinction as i see it is this. if i put out a new song and you hear it in an ad for something that interests you and then you hear it again on the radio, then as a listener you are being presented a song in a way that you are free to choose how you feel about. i think that is different than having created a relationship between a song and a listener (maybe the listener had sex for the first time to that song) and then selling that song (relationship) to promote a product. as ryan mentioned in his comment, i think that is a sort of betrayal that is different. this topic could actually be a whole essay itself.

Anonymous said...

Eric, this may be hard for you to answer, but can you pick one song that you've written or been a part of that you are most proud of, either lyrically, musically, etc.?

a few questions/comments about Deconstruction:

I was also wondering if any of the Deconstruction songs were ever meant to be Janes songs or presented as ideas that Perry ever sang or improvised over while in their infancy.

Did you play any guitar on Deconstruction or did you leave that all to Dave? I think his playing on that album was his 'peak' as a guitarist.

I watched Poltergeist awhile back and noticed that is where the 'national anthem' sample at the end of 'One' is from. That was brilliant sampling and kind of ironic that that segued into 'America'.

That whole album is such a masterpiece. Are you still proud of the work as a whole or do you see it more as a 'healing' album for you? I know you went through some hard times leading up to the recording of the album and it shows it some of the lyrics ('Son' comes to mind)

BTW, I was at the last ever polarbear show (at the Roxy) and remember hearing that your parents were in a car accident on their way to the show. I know its about 6-7 years late, but I hope they were/are okay. I remember you just dropped your bass at the end of the set and it made such a strange sound. You guys were by far the best band in LA at that time and each show was getting more and more crowded each time (I saw you guys 16 times). I was and still am so bummed that you guys never hit it big.

Thanks for all the great memories and I look forward to many more!


Anonymous said...


I was going through your old blogs and came across your friend from L7 and vintage photos she took,and even saw the 'youthful' EA got to go to the website
of artist and look at his 1970's and 1980's galleries..Some of the photos will amaze you and how they actually tell a story to modern day ( the Ryan O'neal photo comes to mind )
Did the drummer from L7 at one time play with the Beastie Boys pre- rap fame ?


P.S. - Yup the PBR cd I just recieved is 'why something instead of nothing'...Still amazes me the thrill you get from listening to new music the first time from an artist who you enjoy...

Anonymous said...

Ive been reading your blog as i am a fan of your work and it is very interesting, i was listening to Belly on youtube and in my opinion it is a perfect song, "i dont know why i bother with it anyway" is a great piece of music.

B.C. said...

This post reminds me Eric...I heard a few songs off of the Chewing Gum E.P. as backdrop for a Halloween show my girlfriend was watching - about witches maybe? - on the History Channel last October. I'm sure you're aware of this and if not, well, now you are.

Once I got past the initial shock of hearing Polar Bear coming from my TV, I chuckled a little at their use of the songs...they had the distorto/scream "my skin" from Water during a part I think they considered particularly evil, and the spoken part of Gimmee during a part they considered mysterious. Very much along the lines of your saying that the songs were being presented to reflect someone else's interpretation.

I'm curious what your feelings were about this...did you feel that this would expose the music to a wider audience, or did you just do it because they asked? I'm assuming that I'm one of a handful of people who might have actually seen the show and recognized it as PBR.

Bottom line, far more satisfying and appropriate to see your music used in this context than selling someone's crap.

-ea. said...

j. - i think the only janes/decon overlap was the song 'iris'. we jammed it at soundchecks and i think i remember perry riffing over it.

only guitar i remember playing was the rhythm on 'son'. if you have the services of a player with daves obvious skill we would crazy to have me do anything on guitar.

that record was made at such a difficult time for me personally that is has been hard for me to ever listen to. yes 'son' is directly autobiographical.

you were at the roxy. wow. the final show. i too have regerets about pbr. in retrospect i think i did it, and the guys in the band, a disservice by not being determined enough. i had a total crisis of confidence and wasnt sure i had any passion for music making anymore and that night, with my folks rolling end over end on the freeway, to use a boxing term, i quit on my stool.

-ea. said...

S- thanks for the link. i must have one of those photos. there are so many that are great. i have no idea what he is charging for prints. will look into it.

L7 drummer beasties connection? i dont know anything about it.

-ea. said...

george d - thanks. belley will always have a special place in my heart.

fyi the trombone solo in that song, if you can call it that, was born from my desire to have a trombone in there because the song had an old 1940's vibe about it. andy troy told me that it just so happens that he can play trombone. i said great. he got trombone and we began to track. it quickly became apparent that he was, well, rusty? but as he was trying to find the pitch i thought that it sounded better being slovenly and drunk sounding rather than simply being a trombone part. so we told him we got the take before he had even found the right notes. done.

-ea. said...

george d - thanks. belley will always have a special place in my heart.

fyi the trombone solo in that song, if you can call it that, was born from my desire to have a trombone in there because the song had an old 1940's vibe about it. andy troy told me that it just so happens that he can play trombone. i said great. he got trombone and we began to track. it quickly became apparent that he was, well, rusty? but as he was trying to find the pitch i thought that it sounded better being slovenly and drunk sounding rather than simply being a trombone part. so we told him we got the take before he had even found the right notes. done.

-ea. said...

b.c.- i did not know this. are you sure? i have heard reports like this occasionally. we worked with someone who turned out to be pretty unethical so it wouldnt surprise me if they were out there selling that ep around and not paying the band. might have to sick andy troy on it. to quote my brother-in-law: "People. They're the worst."

Chris (C. Brian) said...


not sure where to file this one: friends and former bandmates, perhaps . . .

did u know that navarro and perkins are respectively skilled MCs and human beat boxes/drum machines?:

your take on rap/hip-hop? any artists of this genre to whom you listen?

Dan said...

with all the other bands coming back together this year (i.e. Dispatch, Rage Against the Machine, the Police, Van Halen), do you see Jane's Addiction or POLARBEAR coming back together for any sort of reunion any time soon?

Scobra - The Skeleton Master said...

its not your fucking your fucking intellectual vanity eric. you are a great man and you have shown yourself to stand your ground.


andy said...

Whats your five favorite songs?

Like if you had to choose 5 to take with you somewhere without any other music..

Ryan Parr said...

"People. They're the worst."
I wish it was more than 12.5%.

hey, I'll be in Silverlake in a few days for a little vacate and I have to do a few LA la lunches, do you have any suggestions for good grub in S.lake?
Hope you and bella are well,

little fish said...

hello eric,
i really need to talk to you. it's about someone we both know. i need to do it in a less public way. please email me
believe me, i am not trying to find out your email address or anything else. you can send an email from any email address. it's just important.
thank you.
little fish

b.c. said...


I am absolutely positive that the songs I mentioned were used as incidental music, I also confirmed with my girlfriend, she remembered them "playing that song (gimmee I believe) whenever they showed the clip of them dancing around the fire with pitchforks or something". If it sounds cheesy, it was a mid/low budget docudrama.

After poking around a bit yesterday I may have identified it. It was possibly a show on A&E's "Ancient Mysteries" called "Witches". Further investigation showed that Netflix carries a DVD of the show and I've moved it to the top of my queue. I should get it in a few days and I'll let you know if it is indeed the one, then you guys can take it from there.

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Eric, does this ring a bell to you at all?:

08/23/1990 - Subterrania, Ladbroke Grove, London, England
The book states that tickets for the just announced show went on sale immediately and sold out in minutes.
The book also says that Perry got some kind of virus in his throat and that the show was done without him.
We know that the Reading Festival date was cancelled because Perry was sick.

did you guys really play a show without Perry? Can you remember what songs you played? Did anyone happen to step up to the mic and do vocals? Any recollection of this particular show?

little fish said...

thank you so much. i just sent you an email.
a little fish

matt volpe said...

Hey Eric,

It's funny you mention that Dennis Hopper commercial. I saw it too and it blew my mind to see someone like him doing a spot like that, it was a very weird juxtapositon. It felt like when you see a celebrity you hold so dear in your heart do or say something completely out of left field that actually is either offensive or shocking--it's a weird feeling. I respect the fact that as an artist he can express himself in any way he wishes, and may have the need to make some extra dough, but an investment firm commercial? I would have been more pleased if it were a commercial for Chucky Cheese.

Anyways, I agree with a lot of the other postings that since the world has changed dramatically over the last 30 years on how people use technology, that it behooves a lot of artists starting out to sell material for commercial mass use. It seems to be more the norm these days and a little less "selling out" than it used to be. I am personally of the school of perserving artistic integrity to it's highest and not catering to the masses,however, I am understanding of those who choose to take part in the machine. I so admire how you have kept a level head all these years and I find it sxtremely inspiring (as much as your music and bass playing).

Hope you are well otherwise and cannot wait to hear your new tunes someday!

All the best E, Matt

-ea. said...

chris c. brian - i have always had an ear open for what is going on in hip hop. from public enemy and nwa back in the day, to most recently madvillain and quasimoto mf doom etc. taylor, drummer genius, played some drums on a couple of songs that were falling off the back end of my cd yesterday. revived them i think. but i digress, he played me a great track by cool keith called 'i dont believe you.' takes the piss out of mythmaking in the music world.

-ea. said...

dan- dont know about the artists-most-recently-called-janes-addiction. those boys seem good for a reunion every few years. polarbear? hmm. i dont even know if it would be possible. so much of our stuf was built out of loops and samples. i dont know if biff even has them around on some hard drive somwhere. so to answer your question, not likely.

-ea. said...

scobra- you know just how to make a girl blush.

-ea. said...

andy- i can never answer these sort of questions. 'sunday morning' velvet underground, 'desperate kingdom of love' her majesty queen polly jean harvey 'poptones' by pil are the first few that come to mind.

-ea. said...

ryan parr- if you like vietnamese food there is the 'pho cafe'. low key. nothng fancy just good grub. right at the corner of sunset and silverlake blvds.

2841 W Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90026-2125

-ea. said...

b.c. - thanks. im looking into it. or rather andy troy contacted the person responsible. we shall see.

-ea. said...

anonymous - subterrania. vague recollection. small club right? did perry try to sing a couple? i seem to remember he tried a couple and we had some attempt at audience partcipation. five or six songs? i might be blending a bunch of different clubs, nights, and countries together here. we must not forget, im old.

-ea. said...

matt volpe- yes. i am interested to see what role music is going to play in peoples lives in ten or twenty years. i wonder if youth will still identify ourselves by it. will there even be rock stars. one of many things that will keep aging interesting.

little fish said...

eric - i am afraid my email(reply to your email) didnt come through.did you get it?i just sent you another email from two different email addresses to make sure you'll get it.please let me know if it came through this time.
thank you.
Little Fish

Anonymous said...

I've been on a Bill Hicks jag as of late and he is less than forgiving about this topic, with the exception of Willie Nelson.

A simple observation from afar.....your reluctance and in most cases, refusal has maintained the sense of respectability and credibility JA deserves.....and earned. So rare this conviction is these days...sadly.

Be well,


Anonymous said...

Eric, Are you going to have a site where we can download any past songs you have recorded or the new material yet to be released ? I'd rather the coin go to you rather than somebody else..Also, I really enjoy the song nubong, but it is not on the PBR cd I just recieved( I was misinformed) and I hope I can download it in the future...I really like the PBR material,it is helping me through my current percocet addicition self imposed detox...


tikkuria said...

To Anonymous and EA:

I know some people who went to the UK in '90, tried to see Jane's and missed them 4 times in a row. One of them was the second date at Subterrania.

They wrote that the band came out and Perry commented he would not be able to sing, so the band would do some instrumental jam. Then they played instrumental versions of Whores and Up The Beach, and left the stage.

[For a happy ending: these guys ended up seeing Jane`s in Paris a couple months later]

monkeyfeet555 said...


I am writing to you to let you know that your music has been an inspiration for me. Your bass notes are awesome, which I always recall friends would say that Eric A. was one of the best bass players around.
J's A. has never been the same without you, nor I am requesting that you reunite with them for some bucks. But I hope that you regain your status on your new endeavors. Keep up this post. Atleast we know that you are still alive and kicking. All into a new era...

kindness = wealth said...

Eric A - “but it is my belief that nothing, nothing is ever black and white. all is a shade of grey. when i begin to look for the nuance is when i begin to approximate the truth.”

I couldn’t agree more. Great to keep in mind when discussing commercialism of music, selling out, etc.

Money has a strange energy. Money can wipe out a whole civilization while at the same time build up another. Money makes rainforests disappear while causing strip malls and fast food chains appear. Money makes medicines appear where previously there were only diseases.

Did Zep's mojo really fall? At first I was a little disappointed and annoyed when I saw the commercial. Later it occurred to me; maybe the ad is one of very few avenues classic artists have to reach a new generation of listeners/ music consumers/ TV viewers. Maybe Zep’s stock actually rose along side Cadillac’s. Quite possibly could have been a mutually beneficial relationship.

A lot of decent people I know say they would steal from a large corporation though would never steal from friends or a mom and pop shop. Why is this? Is it a natural response against unfair pricing and monopolistic business practices?

Was anyone from the Zep brand ever overcharged for merchandise delivered by the Cadillac Corporation? Is it so bad for Zep to take back some of the money they put into Cadillac? I am not advocating one way or the other. Just constantly asking questions.

I am sure at some point members of Zep must have bought or rented a Cadillac. Isn’t that an endorsement of the Cadillac brand? Is the Cadillac brand a moral gauntlet where it is OK to drive one but not OK to sell music to the corporation? Or put another way, use Cadillac’s marketing budget as way to distribute Zeppelin music to new markets. Should people who watch Cadillac commercials be excluded as potential Zep fans?

Is this a question of Zep having enough money. Is this a case of greed on by the Zeppelin brand?

A friend of mine who is buddies with David Grohl was complaining about how Dave has 75 million bucks and that it was too much. I asked my sweet amigo, “What happens when Dave’s mother needs $80 million for health complications? Is it too much money then?”

Money, like any tool or weapon, is a savior in the proper hands, and an instrument of death and despair in the wrong hands. There is nothing noble about being poor or having money. The same goes for ignoble. And no matter how much commercial exploitation you associate with a noble piece of art, the piece remains noble. The commercial exploit passes over yet the song remains the same.

Turn off the TV set if you don’t want to witness a collision of two brands. One brand perceived as a hero the other brand as an antagonist. Switch stations if a marketing technique causes you to feel less joy.

Beauty and value can only really be measured by how an individual feels. Neither Zeppelin nor Cadillac has much jurisdiction over this sacred territory.

I had worked with emotionally disturbed children for 8 years. I made almost no money and worked constantly. Whatever other time I had went into making music and travel.

Our drummer was an Information Technology headhunter. He repeatedly told me, “Mike you talk such good shit, you should headhunt. You would make tons of money”. My response over and over again was, “Sorry Ryan, I am a musician, I am not a baldhead (Marley - Crazy Baldheads), I help the kids and play music”. Altruistic. Both na├»ve and intuitive.

I was addicted to my job. Working with these special kids gave me a sense of worth no amount of money, music, or travel ever would. Though despite each kid being a new and original experience, I had topped out in my company. And at 28 years old, I was eager to learn what there was to learn outside of my 8-year routine.

I wanted to travel around the world. This was impossible due to my low earning power. I asked Ryan to coach me into a position as a headhunter. Then I promised myself I would not quit before 6 months was up. There were many times in that 6 months where that self promise would be the only thing to keep me going at the desk job.

I don’t know when or how it kicked in, I fell in love with the business world. As a headhunter I get to see how the Babylon beast is able to exist. A side benefit was I made enough money not to have to hang around my parent’s house for a meal. I still played and grew my guitar every day.

I felt I contributed to the greater-good when I worked with the children. I still feel like I contribute as a headhunter by both earning money and helping people find careers. Ways I contribute are by paying more (a lot more) taxes, charity, supporting local artists, circulating money in the community, and all the money I was able to circulate when traveling to less financially prosperous regions of Earth.

In the business world my self-esteem did not diminish. By the time I reached my desk job most of my stock had been placed into kindness, enthusiasm, self-education and compassion. This is what is valuable to me. I am inspired just the same by a great book, song, conversation, walking in nature, work of art, or invention no matter what my bank balance is. No matter what anyone’s bank balance is.

After to 2 years I earned enough dough to quit the desk job. My girlfriend and I traveled internationally for a year. On the road I played a lot of music for people all over the world. I wrote a bunch of songs and some short stories. Painted as well. Thank you high paying desk job. And thumb my nose to my gifted artist friend as you will soon know why.

Before the trip around the world my gifted artist friend bagged on me for being a desk jockey and not making money with music. He is a scenic for the TV studios. He does mostly set painting. He paints houses on his down time. As far as his creative painting is concerned his production has been nil since he got his scenic job. He is too tired from painting at work. I joke - that is why I did not become a gynecologist. Seriously, if he paints sets and houses and not his masterpieces, who is the sell out!?

Even at present, my artist friend ridicules me even though I am able to spend way more time with my guitar then he does with his canvas. Forgive me for it is lame to even compare productivity amongst artist. This story illuminates a portion of the complexity referred to as “selling out”. My friend does not consider himself a sell out and seems to take comfort in perceiving others as sell-outs. Implying less devotion and integrity.

My friend does not realize that it would bankrupt me not to play the music I wanted to in order to make money as a musician. I would rather get money from somewhere else and create music on my terms. My artist friend also failed to realize how much I love to snuggle my wife, daughter and dogs rather than be stuck in close quarters for extended periods of time with the dynamic personalities I have played in bands with. Being dependant on these band mates as a way to feed my family would create incredible sadness.

I love this planet, business, bohemian and otherwise. Switching from teaching/counseling to being a business professional was not a big leap. It was going from working with emotionally disturbed children to working with emotionally disturbed adults. In no way do I feel like a sell out.

I find people’s securities and insecurities with money in relation to their art and self-concept to be a most interesting subject. Growing up in L.A and playing in bands I am a first hand witness to many great artists, especially musicians, grapple with this energy. Especially Los Angeles musicians being surrounded by all that loot and pretense.

Eric - Good post. Let me know if this comment is too long. Long live your blog!

With respect and kindness,

kindness = wealth said...

The internet age, the death (or demotion) of the rockstar, and the ease of home production makes for an exciting whole new playing field for musicians when considering their business plans.

Great to youtube so much talent that would otherwise go unenjoyed.

These are exciting and empowering times indeed!

Kindness and respect,

-ea. said...

s- dont know where nubong is. will have to ask biff if he has a copy somewhere. i still hope to make available, at least for download, all the pbr stuff that exists.

best of luck with the percoset kick. i feel for you. as everyone here probably knows i have been there myself. can you not get yourself some help? its not ever easy but especially not solo.

-ea. said...

tikkuria- thanks for the clarification. glad someone can remember my life.

-ea. said...

monkeyfeet555- thanks for the kind words.

-ea. said...

mike- wow. interesting post. you took the space to really talk about the topic. you touched on the more complicated and sophisticated aspects of the topic that i only tried to allude to. the journey you mentioned, vs. your artist friends, is the very way way we define our lives. when you are making those kinds of call, with the clarity of thought and self examination, then you are deciding what your human life will be. instead of being lead by the nose from purchase to purchase. i applaud that. no matter what the decisions actually are. the answers are your business and no one elses.

Anonymous said...

Eric- Thanks for the concern...I can't get help for this addiction, as I have no idea where to begin..I detoxed for 2 days, then I needed the percocets just to function normally again.It is very hard, the current friends I have have not travelled down this dark road before(at least to my knowledge) and the ones that have I have no idea how to contact for advice...Helplines piss me off, as other end of phone usually is somebody who has not been there before and is looking to get off of work quickly...Any help for me since you have been there before would be

thanks...By the way, This PBR stuff is incredible, I am on week #2 of heavy listening...


Anonymous said...

I can't believe I finally found you again. It's Katia, the Italian photographer from the old J.A. times in London. My new name is Hansa and I'm in India. Please get in touch:

Much love, Hansa

Anonymous said...

I will tell you this. One thing that changes your values and allows compromise is having kids. I had my first one almost two years ago. You know what I think does it ? The Fear. Fear of providing for your family. Fear of not being there forever to make sure he/she is taken care of. Wanting to make all that you can and set it aside because none of us know if today is our last day walking the earth. I have changed my attitudes torwards money over the past couple of years. I used to not really care. If I had enough to go out on Friday then I had enough. Things change and the longer they stay changed, the further you get from your old attitudes, eventually you just can't see where you came from. If you do you don't recognize it. Retirement? For 90% percent of the richest nation in the world that just is not going to exist. If we make it to 65 ( or whatever retirement age ends up by then) our health will be so f*cked up we will have to find some demeaning work to get health insurance so we can afford to live. Take what you can when you can. Because nobody is looking out for you and yours. Nobody.